Oh goodie :-). A provoking topic.
Everyone takes jabs at religion. It’s pretty easy to attack something people believe in, no matter what that belief is. I encourage people to believe in things - even if your belief is incorrect (which it most likely is :-P), then at least you stood up for something. That’s better than believing in nothing, and acting cynical.
However, I will now be hypocritical, and attack religion. There are a lot of things about each religion that I disagree with, but there is one specific thing that I adamantly disagree with that exists in most religions. It is the belief that their path is the only correct path.
To believe that your path is the only path that can lead to God or truth is ridiculous. In fact, it denies God. Each human is on their own path, and if you believe in God, then you believe that God put us on these paths. To claim a path is “wrong” is to deny God’s intentions.
A sharp person will read the above paragraph and see how much of a hypocrite I really am. If I’m preaching that no path is wrong, then how can I claim that religion is wrong? I can’t. I’ve just bitch-slapped myself. Ow.
If there was one rule I could etch into the universal unconscious mind - one rule that people should just fucking follow no matter what - it would be this: No Killing. Fuck love, fuck understanding, fuck compassion… let’s just focus on one thing. No Killing. Period. Could we do that? But I am a hypocrite. The act of “etching rules” is in fact killing, in disguise. Oh enigma! That’s two bitch-slaps.
“Wrong”? Who am I to say something is wrong anyways? At best, I can tell others what I personally think is right… but even that doesn’t mean that it is right. I’ve disagreed with myself more times than the community at large has. I’ve change my beliefs and opinions so many times… when can I start preaching? Where do I begin? The second I start is the second I change my mind, and have to disprove what I’ve just proven. Those that listen just inherit my struggles on top of their own. Eek!
However, if I try to convey this observation to those that have yet to observe it, then I’m a victim of my own palm. And if I do nothing, then my realizations are worthless.
Where is the illusion? I’ve found it.
Truth cannot be conveyed. Any attempts to teach truth to someone else is an immediate failure. This sentence fails. Truth can only be attained by the self. No one else can attain it for us.
Is religion wrong? Or does mind make it wrong? If I can change my mind on what my favorite movie is, then can’t I change my religion as well? Who is right? The me that is religious, or the me that is anti-religious? 
Bahaha :-).
August 1st, 2007 at 12:36 pm
What happened to the days of “no religion because it might step on some people’s toes”?
I’ll post my thoughts later… when I figure out what they are.
August 1st, 2007 at 4:31 pm
@war1025: LOL!
@Sean: I agree with what you’re saying. But we have to keep in mind what religions are. They were meant to unify people in dark times and to keep people from killing themselves during the plague.
(or else, because suicide’s a sin! 
[more sarcastic smilies])
But until recently (relatively), religions were meant to be political as well. Most started out as cults, so they had to watch each other’s backs when they were being persecuted by the majority AKA the OTHER religions. (Speaking from my knowledge of Catholicism) The big thing that keeps me from denying my religion is realizing that we’re not being persecuted anymore, so the “us” vs. “them” logic is waaaaay past its prime. I don’t exactly tell my priest this, heh, but I’m still a part of the religion w/o accepting the whole, outdated package.
In a nutshell: Religions have the best intentions, but in my opinion, you don’t have to agree 100% with whatever church/temple/shrine/etc. you happen to visit once a week.
Also, having so many religions is silly. Aren’t most somewhat monotheistic, whether it’s one god in 3 parts (with his angels), one god in many forms, one unifying spirit, one king of the gods (other gods comparable to angels), etc.? However, there are those random off-shoots from every imaginable religion. Lots of fish in the sea to choose from.
As for trying to convey truth, I also agree, but in my experience this stems mostly from others’ stupidity.
(*hearts* to whomever read all that. I don’t think I’ve written so much all summer…FINGER CRAMPS!)
August 1st, 2007 at 7:25 pm
“Might makes right”.
Lets take a nice look into the origins of Christianity. All the way from Moses.
Pharaoh was a mighty man with a great Army and the Israelian people did what he told them to do. Simpple. Then along came Moses and the bible tells that he did some great miracles that convinced the Pharaoh that he was more powerful. So the ruler of egypt let them leave…
Times later there was this guy Jesus. He did miracles to amaze people and told them what he believed to be the best way to live. People saw his powers and in awe jumpped right into his bandwagon. The final nail to the coffin was his resurrection, the ultimate victory. Victory from death. Every humans ultimate treasure. It is because of this power and charisma, that people yet still follow this wise mans teachings. Power = Dominance = Charisma = Leadership = Attracts the followers.
In short: People have done / do now / Will always do what the Leaders tell them to. A leader is a leader because of his abilities. Mostly by his power.
A leader changes when another one with even greater power challenges and defeats him. Such thing happened with a Pharaoh. Religion is a code of laws set by powerful individuals. Are they right? Are they wrong? Who knows. But the world is yet to see a man more powerful than some of the people in Bible legends in the flesh.. The day this person comes, we shall know…
My theory is mostly based on psychology.
August 1st, 2007 at 8:08 pm
Um, antisankari, what you said has nothing to do with psychology. There is no evidence that moses or jesus etc. did miracles; maybe they did but you stated it like fact.
Sean- I don’t see a contradiction in what you said.
Premise- The belief in a single path to truth is an incorrect one (I prefer to say a limiting belief).
2. Religion preaches a single path to truth.
3. Therefore religion is incorrect (or limiting)
However, if you had said:
Premise- Any path can lead to truth.
2. Religion preaches a single path to truth
3. Therefore religion does not lead to truth
This is a contradiction because the premise is any path can lead to truth even the path that claims it is the only path.
P.S.
I personally believe that there is one path to truth in that: everyone on the path to the “truth” come across the same landmarks and destinations but the amount of time it takes and how they got to the landmarks and how it affected and changed them would be different…
August 1st, 2007 at 8:46 pm
Hey_you…
“There is no evidence that moses or jesus etc. did miracles; maybe they did but you stated it like fact.”
Right. There are no evidence concerning Moses or Jesus and their accomplishments. But my point was that the people around them believed them to have done something. In this case its quite irrelevant wheter Jesus did something or not. The people decided to follow him.
No matter what convinced them, it must have seemed like a miracle to them. Something happened. Not necessarily supernatural, but something that was a reason just enough for people to trust his words.
Without some serious support from the populace, his teachings would have been forgotten a long time ago.
August 2nd, 2007 at 2:30 am
Good post sean.
This post explained a lot of what I was looking for.
- hotfoot982
August 2nd, 2007 at 3:41 am
This probably will be not much sense. But, hell, I’m gonna try anyways.
I could read your argument above, but it would just confuse me, so this is what I think of religion.
Religion and faith are two separate things. Faith will be called the belief in some God of choice. Religion is something that encompasses many things, including faith.
Throughout the ages, people have been drawn to the belief that there is something more out there. Something bigger than themselves, this manifests itself in Faith in things such as gods. People believe in these things.
But there are other things that people need. For instance, people need to be held together in some sort of group. They need some sort of identity. This is where religion comes in; ceremonies and rituals that make people feel as if they are part of something bigger.
Religion serves to bind people together. You can bind people together by saying, “Believe whatever the fuck you want” It just doesn’t work. So what do they do? They get together and they say these are the core beliefs that we all agree on, let’s worship based around them.
Religions by necessity must claim that they are the only TRUE religion. That they practice the one true faith. Why? Because if they are not the only true faith, they have no reason to exist and hold no binding power. Societies need common ground to exist, religion provides this common ground.
So what if, by chance, there are more than one way to whatever we are seeking? What if there is more than one truth? You can say that this is the damning point of religion, but consider this:
If there is more than one path, and the major religions each represent one of those paths, and each claim to be the only true religion, what harm are they doing?
If you tell someone who isn’t aware of all the nuances of a situation how to do something, they will listen. If you give them the easy way to salvation, they will take it. You don’t say, “Well you could do it this extremely complex and backwards way…” You give them easy directions of how to get what they seek. They in effect say, “Ok, do it this way, because otherwise you might fuck up.”
I don’t know. Thats just what I could put together of my thoughts, don’t know if it makes sense.
As for me, I’m Christian. I don’t know if I agree with all of the dogma, but the core beliefs, the things that matter, I can digg them.
As for the rest of you, this community should be as religious as any. For all of the supernatural, reality altering things we claim to believe in, we should be the first to admit that there is something more to life than the physical world.
Evidence of how something works doesn’t disprove the belief.
Knowing how an engine works doesn’t disprove that it is an engine or that someone made it.
Even the pope admits that there is evidence for evolution. This scares alot of people, but think about it. Just because we can begin to unravel some of these processes of how life works doesn’t make them any less amazing or God any less real.
Chew on it… tell me where I’m wrong.
August 2nd, 2007 at 9:27 am
This is why I dont beleive in the Cristian religion. Out of the tons of religions out there..People that beleive this one, think that this one out of all of them just happens to be right. Thats so unlikely. THeres all these religions, and that just happens to be the right one?? I dont think so. :/ And then I ask them why they beleive it and they usually say “well God wrote the bible and it says so!!” and I’m just thinking like lol because anybody coulve written it.
August 2nd, 2007 at 10:40 am
Hey_you - I was arguing that each human is on their own path, and that if you believe and have faith in God, then you should have faith that it’s the correct path for that human. Then I was arguing that most religions are wrong because they preach you must follow one specific path. The contradiction is that: I was saying that no path is wrong, and then saying that the religious path is wrong because it doesn’t say that no path is wrong. If no path is wrong, then a path that says it’s the only true path can’t be wrong.
war1025: “If there is more than one path, and the major religions each represent one of those paths, and each claim to be the only true religion, what harm are they doing?”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_inquisition
You could make a strong argument that certain terrorist organizations also operate out of the belief that they must convert others or kill them. (Although maybe too many terrorists organizations get this label pinned on them when really they just want us to GTFO ;-P).
August 2nd, 2007 at 12:04 pm
I’m a Christian, Protestant to be more exact, and a pretty devout one by today’s standards. I firmly believe in my religion. My family is not religious, per se, although they would call themselves Christians. While I believe strongly in my religion, I’ve often questioned the Bible, especially the Old Testament. I have a difficult time believing that the Bible is the exact word of God. I’m certainly not a scholar on the matter, it’s just that certain aspects of the Bible are difficult to believe. We spoke before about faith; hopefully I’m not shooting myself in the foot.
Where I do feel strongly are among the teachings of the Bible. The Bible is full of important lessons, lessons that I believe a lot of people could learn something from. I’m sure everyone has heard “the golden rule”. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. In plain English, treat others as you would like to be treated. Think about it for a few minutes. Imagine what the world might be like if everyone followed that simple rule. The Bible also teaches about faith, hope and love. In my opinion, these are the three most important aspects of humanity. To me, the capacity for faith, hope and love is the definition of what it means to be human.
Getting back on topic, I pretty much feel that any belief system that includes these types of positive teachings is a great path, be it Chrisianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Islam, Taoism, etc. I don’t think it’s necessary to struggle to convert people from one religion to another, but I do think it’s important to make religion available to those without it.
Will my belief in Christ as my savior afford me eternity in Heaven? I obviously can’t say with any certainty, but nonetheless I have faith that it will. Has my religion made me a better person? Absolutely.
If you have nothing more to say about religion, I think you must at least say this: In an effort to be politically correct, God has been minimized if not removed from American society, and sin has been quick to take His place.
And what’s this crap about renaming the Easter Bunny?!?!
August 2nd, 2007 at 12:46 pm
And you don’t think that people would have found other reasons to persecute / go to war with other nations if they didn’t have the religion issue?
Religion might be a justification, but it isn’t the reason.
August 2nd, 2007 at 1:18 pm
I didn’t say religion was the reason. I said that belief that your path is the only true path, and you must convert people to your path, has caused harm. Could a human find other reasons to kill? Oh sure. I’m not saying this is the ONLY reason people fight. But this belief has caused a lot of harm.
August 3rd, 2007 at 2:50 am
Conflict is the spice of life… People will always want to fight. There will always be war. To think otherwise is foolish. The whole point of life is the best man wins. Natural selection and whatnot. The harm doesn’t come from people fighting and struggling and actually LIVING, it comes when we decide that everyone has a right to live. That everyone should play nice and get along. It’s a nice idea and it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside, but in reality it’s horrible. The weak are allowed to live and overpopulation occurs.
I don’t know though… its all theoretical and hypothetical… it has nothing to do with anything really…
I would disagree on the religion being wrong point, though. It fulfills it’s goals very well… those goals just aren’t always tied to salvation. Religion serves to bind people together and give them comfort in things such as death and willingness to die in the knowledge that there is an afterlife.
They need to believe that their path is right because otherwise they are not justified in doing what they have done. Right and wrong are determined by who wins…
Fuck I don’t know.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:42 am
Another strange coincidence while I was watching TV last night. Gotta watch The Office on Thursday night, there is no better television programming. Usually I just shut the TV off afterwards, but instead I left it on and started watching Scrubs. I’ve never really been able to get into Scrubs, but I think I might give it a try. Anyway, one of the topics of the episode was how everything happens for a reason. One of the nurses was trying to convince a doctor of this, and he firmly disagreed. I thought to myself, “Ha, that’s funny, we’ve been talking about this a lot on A Little Weird. That is a little weird!”
Then, here’s the kicker. I was up later than usual last night and The Simpsons was on. It was the episode about the Rapture where at the end, Homer goes and meets God. While Homer was up in Heaven, he turned his television to channel 23 to see how his family was doing. There floating along in a pool of blood was a Buddhist saying “I thought my path was the right one!” or something along those lines.
Like a few people have said, perhaps I only noticed these things because my mind is looking for the coincidence, but either way it was pretty eerie!
August 3rd, 2007 at 3:36 pm
I was raised Christian (emphesis on “was”) and new alot of stories of the bible and how it all worked out, but as I grew older I started to question alot of the stories and teaching about God and other religions. As of the last 2 weeks I have come to the decision myself that all religions are wrong. Just like how a rumor changes over time from one person to another, I believe so to does religion being corrupt by mistranslation and cencorship.
Every Religion has thier Prophets and thier Healing, wheeling and dealing Saviors and thier own personal Holy Book and all claim to be “The One” *flashes on the Matrix O_o*. I believe that every religion is worshiping the same God but just calling him/it a different name (ie Jahova, Allah, Buddah).
I believe there is a God and I believe that he is weeping looking at how badly we have fucked up by taking the same thing and trying to divide it into different segments called Christianity, Budahism and Cathalisism and killing eachother in the name of these man made branches.
The one thing about religion (mostly western) that I dislike is how narrow minded it can make a person. They can stub thier toe and its the Devils Fault.
I believe we were created with abilities far beyond what we understand (psionics) and for some ppl, if they are particularly gifted, might not understand it and lose control causing things to happen in which thier religion tells them its Evil. Fear towards the Unknown.
In closing, Im not saying religions are bad. They do help and some ppl need to feel like they belong and they do so through religion. On the other hand some ppl, like me, are happy being loners and dont need the followship of a mass. Im just saying dont let it run your life to the point where you become a robot. Let it act as guidlines to how to live, like one of you posted ealier. Because in the end all religion is is a concept created by man with books written by men about lessons in life. I mean Hell, look at Scientology :p thats called a religion.
funny that this topic would come up shorty after my “realization” the last few eeks >_
August 3rd, 2007 at 3:41 pm
P.S you need an Edit Tab for after you post Sean >__
August 3rd, 2007 at 4:55 pm
My belief is this, there are only two paths leading to heaven. That’s right, you don’t have to be a Christian, you have a choice. Your choices are:
1)Be perfect from birth, and continue to do so. This means that;
-You have no gods other then Jehovah, Yahweh, I AM, whatever name
you prefer to use, the one and only God.
-You have never made an idol, or worshiped any idols. Keep in
mind that ANYTHING can be an idol.
-You have never used the Lord’s name in vain.
-You have kept the sabbath day holy, meaning you don’t work on
it, use it simply for relaxing and being with the Lord.
-You always have respected your mother and father.
-You have never killed, hating someone in your heart is counted
as murder.
-You have never committed adultery, sex outside of marriage, and
have never had lustful thoughts about a person.
-You have never stolen, no matter the value.
-You have never lied, even if it was “for a good reason”.
-You never coveted another’s persons possesions or any aspect of
their life.
That’s one option that you have. If you think you still have a chance at it, go for it, but ANY straying and that path is gone, you strayed from the path, and you only have one option left…
2)So you’ve somehow messed up, your a sinner just like us all. The first option isn’t going to work for you. Unfortunately there is nothing that any man can do to change that for himself. But because Jesus Christ died for us, and took all of the sins of every person that was/will ever be born and then rose from the dead, hell not able to hold him because he himself was without sin and is the son of God, we have another chance. All we have to do is repent of our sins, believing in our hearts and minds that God is real, that Jesus died for us, and that we are sinners and we need him to get to heaven. Just give your life over to God.
Seem unreasonable to you? Think a little bit harder, God owes us NOTHING but has died for us, and offered us eternal life. If you ask me its US who owe HIM.
Now a lot of you will dismiss this as nothing, because there is no “proof” of God. He isn’t something that you can see, much like the wind. You cannot see the wind, you only see the effects of the wind. The way that a Christian knows that god is real is EXPERIENCE. If someone tells a child that a stove is hot, and the child believes them, the child has now entered the realm of belief. Out of curiosity though, because they want to know what hot feels like, the child touches the stove, and burns their hand. Now the child has experienced hot, and if someone else comes to them and tells them that the stove isn’t hot, they can’t be fooled, they know, they have experienced it (this stove is always on =D). This is the same way that a Christian knows God is real. They have experienced Him moving in their life.
Christianity is not a religion as the world might categorize it. It’s a lifestyle, it’s the truth. Christianity is people dedicating their lives to God, who without they would not live. So you still have a chance to get on the right path, there’s people out there trying to lead you to it. If you have any questions I suggest speaking to a local pastor. Or email me, that’s more fun for me =D
speeddrummerx@gmail.com
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:57 pm
So I guess every not christian is going to hell huh?
this is the narrow mindedness I spoke of in my previous post :p
August 4th, 2007 at 12:29 am
A agree with you Nezz. The thing I hate the most about religion is the narrow mindedness of people. If religious people killed everyone they considered evil we would still be wiping our asses with leaves and believing that universe revolves around us.
I have some relatives that are very religious. They are so narrow minded they do not believe in micro evolution (the idea that all living creatures can trade DNA and during times of extreme environmental condition be reduced), super position theory (aka Schrodinger’s cat: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger%27s_cat ), and even M-theory ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-theory ).
It’s so horrible. People have no faith in each other as it is. Throw in religion and idiots start to pop out of no where. If there was a theory that could prove that heaven was real and so was hell, religious idiots would be the first to strike it down by saying it was the devil’s work to stray people from religion. People blame those who don’t aren’t religious as evil. But most of the “evil” people out there realized what I did: If you want something done right you do it your self. No one can help you but you. Somethings you can’t control like accidents and bad luck, but you can adjust your feelings toward them and turn it into a positive.
Another thing that really irritates me is when people look at those in jail and prison and assume that they are there because god is punishing them. When inmates try to get religion some say that it’s not “true”. But the everyday church goer forgets that their life could have been different then a inmates. Many religious and non religious people are so close minded they assume that most people in jail are in there because of their doings. But if they had enough money to eat decent meals and had lived in good neighborhoods with a loving wife, would they still be in the same position?
I guess what bothers me is just close-mindedness. Well I hope everyone blindly follows what I say and calls all else heresy XD
August 4th, 2007 at 5:12 am
Don’t forget about the crustacean, Daemon. They are abominations too (Leviticus 11:10) and can send you to hell. That is, until Jesus died for you. And if you ask me, I’m willing to get myself killed for you/everyone-else, even though I owe you and possibly many other people nothing, if it means I will have people like yourself raving for me thousands of years after my death and revering me as God.
That aside,
I have just one question that I really want to ask of those present: For those of you that name and mention religion that is not your own (whether you actually have one or not aside), just how much do you actually know of the said religion, or any other religion beside your own?
For an example, if you are a Christian, how much do you actually know of, say.. Buddhism? Or if you are a Buddhist, how much do you know and understand of Christianity?
Personally, I think that it is probable that most religion might ultimately be categorically similar at it’s core, but I assumed that it might be a dangerous thing to do, basing conclusions on incomplete information. So, with some of my reasons explained, I’d like to know your (the current reader of this sentence) opinion and experience.
August 4th, 2007 at 8:30 pm
dont really need to have a PHD in world religions to know that most worship one or more gods. I dont know all of the religions out there. I am trying to study, in my free time, what religions are out there and what they believe in as a fyi kinda thing because its a thing that seems to run many ppl’s lives. but basically my conclusions I have made in previous posts are based on what I currently know about religion and religions im pretty familiar with. As far as experiance, I have a family broken up by religion, some Christian, some Catholic, some Jahovas Witness and some just plain confused all together in what they believe in lol.
if you want to sum it up to something measureable, then id say i would have an associates degree in wolrd religion while maintaining a B+ average
August 6th, 2007 at 1:14 am
I see. Thank you for your reply, Nezz, it is all very interesting to me.
We are all surrounded by different regional, cultural, and societal, influences, which in turns yields a large variety of different perspective, I believe.
I think that if our opinions are painted in colours, the above comments when taken in conjunction with one another would look like a stained glass in a church. Very colourful. Though some of them look like different shades of the same colour to me, but interesting nonetheless.
August 14th, 2007 at 8:24 am
heyy sean, glad to see your keeping up this site after psipog
anyways onto my thoughts
i would like to say that if people knew other religions besides christianity and catholicism, they would know that some religions, such as buddhism, accept other religions and accept the knowledge that their path may lead others to what they are looking for. If you look at a lot of religions, most have the same “rules”, one that is popular is the golden rule, treat others as you want to be treated, just stated different.
where am i going with this? well i believe that some people are scared, and feel vulnerable if they think they dont always have some kind of power protecting them, also reffering to antisankari, power leads to followers of your teachings. (funny how some believe that power corrupts all) Onto my point, i think that if religions keep most people from killing, stealing, causing chaos (even though some people break these “commandments” others who would too, may not break these for fear of “God”) how can religions be wrong? speaking in christianity which is dominant here, ive been told you cant interperate the bible directly, there are shades of gray. so if religion helps keep order, i dont believe its wrong, but i personally dont believe that there was a jesus or God, or that being christian will get you into heaven if you’re good, theres a shade of gray. I will speak my mind and say that my beliefs are all religions are bullshit that people put their faith into or are forced to believe. But those are my thoughts, think about them or not, take them as they are.
Oh and to sean, you said that truth must be attained by self, it cannot be attained by others. In saying that, are you not telling us that truth? and if that is a truth, that truth can only be attained by self, your statement therefore is false, but i attained this truth by myself, so that means its correct…?
Ouch…headache
August 14th, 2007 at 10:24 am
Cein - Thank you :-). You’ve demonstrated how I’m a hypocrite :-). Which is why I wrote about bitch-slapping myself in the post :-P. Lots of philosophical paradoxes in the whole debate.
“This sentence fails.”
August 14th, 2007 at 3:18 pm
Personally, religion set up my basic beliefs as a child. It was sort of a building block that helped me develope my own beliefs. Sure, you don’t nessisarily need religion for a basis, but for some people it’s what works. It enforces rules, or else it’s likely you’ll burn in hell. : P But it can also give people hope, family, faith, something to help them.
There is of course, the darker side of religion. It can confine you, close your mind… it can be used to gain influence for your own personal benefit, it can be corrupt, and all those sorts of things.
Like everything else, there’s a negative and positive side to it.
And truth? Truth has many faces. I agree with what you said.
But do be more gentle with the bitch slapping? You’ll hurt yourself. : P