I agree with everything you said Sean except for those things that contradicted what Bentinho had to say. I felt convinced by him, but I’m not sure. I guess I need an experience myself to get my standpoint clear.

Also what war1025 had to say made a lot of sense to me.

However, I also agree with Oneta about that it’s hard to measure whether the conscious and the subc. is aligned or not, and thus it’s hard to determine what makes intention manifestation work. And again it’s hard to argue without any experience.

Then there is no probability, just cause and fact. The causes are fact of other causes and thats how the world “works”. Just there are uncountable amount of causes in reality. Only way for your subconcious to predict something is to analyze the reality. For example while predicting the dice roll it has to analyse the current psychical state of roller to predict how will he roll and then how will the dice bounce and where will it stop and some more. If that is right, decision is just an illusion. In fact we chose everything because of a reason, and that reason has its causes, those causes their own causes etc. For example, I saw a Dragon Ball anime when I was young and then 10 years later when I first time read about energy manipulation I “decide” to learn it. The cause was anime I’ve seen but I dont even remember it, I just felt like it would be cool to manipulate energy. Then the choice is illusion. And if we push that forward, all is alredy decided. And if we push it backward, there had to be a “first cause”

(in response to “Soo… how do you get out of this loop?”)

This is where I struggle lately. I think the whole intention manifestation theory is closely related to the idea of ‘you create your own reality’. And if you buy into that for a second, then you are basically unable to do any further ‘observation’. Because what good is it to observe a reality that has been created based on your own assumptions about reality? Also you can not disprove it, because any proof why you don’t create your own reality, can be understood as an created proof resulting from the belief that you don’t create your own reality. Soo.. how do get out of this loop?

As for if you are here to just share perspectives..what is the point? To show how you believe in this, not that it matters, because so and so believes in this? Anyways this is not the case. We have peebs posting his thoughts and beliefs, and then people who support Intention manifestation telling him not to give up just yet on the idea. Sounds like a bit more than just sharing perspective. A conversation of shared perspectives would go like this

Tom: Hey bob, you know…I’ve been eating a lot of string cheese lately, and I just don’t think I enjoy the taste of it anymore.
Bob: That’s cool, Tom, personally I enjoy string cheese myself on Ritz crackers.
Tom: Yeah, me too, that’s always been good for an easy snack when I’m too lazy to fix something.

Not this:

Tom: Hey bob, you know…I’ve been eating a lot of string cheese lately, and I just don’t think I enjoy the taste of it anymore.
Bob: Well that is strange, string cheese is so awesome, you shouldn’t give up on it just yet, maybe your taste buds are just odd right now, because string cheese taste awesome to me, so it must be something wrong on your side.
Tom: Yeah, well what about Onions, I like them, and you don’t, so maybe your taste buds are the ones that are a bit off!

Examples of the following conversation from this part of the blog:
“However, I think you discard the idea of intention manifestation too briefly. You see, there are flaws, but they are not in the intention manifestation itself. The flaws exist in the explanation given by people who preach this principle of attraction.”

“No, cause then your subconscious mind is not 100% in line with your intention. That’s the only reason for the lack of manifestation. We might think we are completely in line with our intention, but if it doesn’t manifest, there is some subconscious/emotional/mental obstacle in our self.” (said in response to Peebs implying that the problem here for sure was that things were not in line 100%, yet has no way of verification.)

“There are some contradictions in this piece of text that shows bondage to the mind. You say Not to be attached to your mental model, but to let reality be the judge. But reality does not judge, only the mind judges.”(This was said in response to a quote of Peebs)

Then I chime in with the “you can argue all day” comment. Which I don’t find to imposing, just trying to get some realization that arguements could seem valid from both points of view, depending on how you approach it. But apparently it was imposing, because it provoked a response.

“So I would suggest not to discard the principle or suggest it is flawed; that is a hasty misassumption in my experience. The law is pure; we are not. Hence the lack of results.”(sure you say in your experience, but anything anyone says is from their experience, you can’t experience something for someone else.)

Other similar things were said, but these were just the best examples and mainly because it is coming from the same one who was saying we are just sharing perspectives. To share perspectives is not to tell each other what we think they are doing wrong, or what we think they should do. Even if you present such as opinions, it is still debating. And in debates you try and convince others that what you are saying is right, and the other party is wrong.

Belief, at least as I understand it, is by definition something that is not certain.

I believe in God. I believe in ghosts. I believe you are telling the truth. etc.

In each of these statements there is no direct proof of truth. There is room for doubt. That is what makes them “beliefs.”

I don’t believe that I am 18 years old. I know that I am. It is a quantifiable, provable fact.

Knowing things is great as far as certain things are concerned. But sometimes its better to just believe. Belief, in my mind, means that you are still searching. You are still trying to find solid ground. As soon as you *know* something, it ceases to change. You are no longer accepting alternate possibilities.

And that is what we are trying to do here, we are trying to find something to *believe* with a greater degree of certainty. We still don’t really know anything for certain, but we would really like to get closer to that end.

So, this isn’t so much everyone trying to get others to believe what they do, but us simply laying our cards out on the table and asking each other “What among this is plausible?” No, I don’t fully believe any of this. I am uncertain, I have doubts. I’m just searching for something to put some faith into.